Transcript

Kanika (host): Can you start by giving me some background on BKU (Ekta Ugrahan)? How was it started and what were some of the organization's goals?

 

Sukhdev Singh:  BKU (Ekta Ugrahan), of which I am the general secretary, held its first elections in 2002. Since then, the president and general secretary select delegates and then the committee is elected from within them. So since then this election has happened about four to five times. 

 

K: For what purpose was BKU (Ekta Ugrahan) started?

 

S: The need of this organization was born because the leaders of BKU would get involved in vote politics. They would also do whatever the government wanted to get to be a part of the state legislature. We wanted our organization to be completely outside of this type of vote politics. We also wanted a totally secular organization. The third foundational idea was that the organization’s goal was to be those that are with the farmers and there for their fulfillment, and to meet their needs. We aim to make this organization free of struggle for the farmers, making it completely secular and bipartisan, such that there is no undue influence of any party on our organization and members. 

 

K: According to you, what is the need for farmers to unionize? Why do you feel the government does not fulfill their needs without unionization?

 

S:  The government is completely in the pocket of the corporate organizations, whether it was Manmohan Singh on the national level, whether it be someone like Badaal on the state level, or whether it is Modi now at the national level. None of them listen to the needs of the farmers until there is a big protest. The governments support the corporation to increase their reach via neo-economic policies, through globalization and privatisation. They make laws according to these economic policies in the assemblies, favoring the corporates. It was after the2013  WTO meeting in Bali where American delegates berated Manmohan Singh asking him why he wasn’t enforcing WTO laws about which a deal had been made. They confronted him about not enforcing a ‘khuli mandi’ (open market).  They asked him why the Indian government wasn’t giving them the freedom of selling their stuff without taxes. Manmohan Singh was badly reprimanded by them, this is a fact. After that corporate organizations put all this force onto Modi who proved to be loyal to them. And like the British, he used the tactic of turning people against each other and starting riots, he divided people up for the corporate masters. This was so that their attention was divided and they would not be able to protest the unfair law. He did this in Gujarat in the year 2002. Without any reason between Hindu’s and Muslims. It wasn’t just riots, it was a massacre. You can’t call them just riots. After this, to satisfy the imperialist corporations, Modi made these laws to destabilize the farmers and play into the corporate hands. That’s why we have made these organizations, because we have to do these big protests because the government that is supposed to be for the public is actually not. When these laws were passed in the parliament, they didn’t let anyone speak about these laws.  

 

K: Oh, really?

 

S: It’s in front of you!  When they were passed in the parliament. 

 

K: No definitely!

 

S: First they did the ordinance on the 6th of June, then in Lok Sabha and then Rajya Sabha. If MP’s spoke in Rajya Sabha, they suspended them. Is this a democracy?

 

K: Definitely not!

 

S: Is this a people’s rule?

 

K: No.

 

S: In this way, everyone that produces things for this nation, laborers, farmers, everyone who uses their bodies to produce things for this nation are being squashed. To squash them and to squeeze their bodies, these laws are being brought forward. This is why we need this organization and when they don’t listen to us through small protests we had the need to institute this protest, which is the longest in history. I don’t know how many more years this would go on. The farmers have felt this wakefulness. We aren’t moving. This wakefulness is being felt by all the farmers in the nation. 

 

K: According to you, will there only be negative consequences for farmers due to privatization?

 

S: There is proof for this. I’ll give you the proof. 

 

K: Yes

 

S:  The open markets and private buying have been brought in to the detriment of the farmer. There is something that the government calls MSP. This will stay but the government wants to replace the guarantee of the MSP and establish private markets where MSPs are not necessary. In the old laws, if someone is only growing two crops, like rice and wheat or sugarcane, it is only two - three crops. We have to do this. Also, in some Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, UP there have been big protests whenever this has been tried. First, during Vajpayee’s government there was a protest and then during Manmohan Singh’s government. Where there aren’t government led markets, there is no MSP. In this season the MSP that the government fixed was Rs.12.50 but because there wasn’t a government market, private companies set the price at Rs. 700,  Rs. 800, or even, Rs. 900. And when we purchase from the buyers they give it at Rs.2,200, Rs.2,500, more than half. This is looting from both hands. That’s what they want to establish via an open market. 

 

K: So, you’re saying that instead of the farmers, the private companies make a profit?

S: Yes, if the farmer dies, they don’t care! This is how the government is. More than 4 lakh farmers, according to national data, have committed suicide. This is in government farms, it is much more in private farms. The government doesn’t care. If you bring it up to a minister they get offended. They are tight lipped about this.

 

K: According to you, what laws should the government introduce that will actually help the farmers? Are there any new laws that you, or BKU (Ekta Ughrahan) would like to introduce?

 

S: We are demanding that these farm laws are nullified and a law that guarantees MSP is constructed, in which all the crops have a fixed MSP, according to the swaminathan commission. According to their C2 formula. This is a government commission, not something we are making up. This is to calculate the MSP. They should also give us 50% of the profits from which the farmers can run the farms. This is what DR. Swaminathan has written. He is the chairman of the farmers commission. MSP should be guaranteed regardless of the type of buyer, whether it be the government or a private buyer. If a private buyer gives even one Rupee lesser than the MSP, there should be a legal investigation upon them. They should be punished. We want these laws, we’re all demanding this. All the unions. And the PDS when it is over and all this government buying is done, then PDS should apply regardless of caste or class. If the government has any seeds in their godowns, only then can they give PDS, right? So, the government is leaving and hasn’t kept any capital for buying the FCI. So how will the PDS function? This is also in our demands. 

 

K: So, before laws were implemented, what effect was privatization having on farmers? Because I know that corporations have been coming for quite some time and taking advantage of the farmers!

 

S: What you are saying is absolutely right! I’ve already told you that if according to government data, more than 4 lakh farmers have committed suicide, this is an indication an consequence of the loot that corporations have been doing, even before these laws. Since this privatized formula has been applied to the Indian context, since then chemicals and these new seeds, new machinery and diesel, their input has increased. This is all because of the corporations. Whether Indian or Western, these are imperialist organizations. They’ve gotten the freedom of raising pieces as much as they would like. In pakistan they are selling Diesel and Petrol at even lower rates. They get petrol and oil at low costs. In this way, the freedom they’ve been given, even before these laws, have led to the bad situation of the farmers. The farmers can’t see any other route, other than suicide, and they are helpless and have no other choice. That’s why, before to stop this loot and put a ceiling on their profits, profit margins were fixed to 10% or 20%. Now they have no such ceiling. They sell us diesel that is produced at just Rs. 5 at Rs.50  and then on top of that the government puts an additional Rs. 50 tax on that. 

 

K: According to you, the fertilizers etc that the government wants to overuse, have you noticed any discrepancies in your farms?

 

S: We have seen this alot, Madam! The pollution that these fertilizers have caused or these new techniques that have been introduced that are draining Punjab’s water table. There is no need for this. Punjabi people don’t eat as much rice. Punjab doesn’t need rice and yet the most rice is grown in Punjab. This is draining the water table and also a lot of diseases, like cancer of the body, lung disease are spreading a lot. This is because of the pollution. They try and blame us because we employ slash and burn agriculture but 90% of the pollution is because of the factories. No one talks about this. There is this narrative going around in the whole world that the farmers are causing all this pollution. 

 

K: According to you, is the poor farmer easier to blame for the government as opposed to corporations?

 

S: The poor farmer is the first to be suppressed. After these new laws are introduced, they will affect the poor farmers the most. To end them. 

 

K: Do you want that if certain crops aren’t needed in Punjab, they shouldn’t be grown?

 

S: Yes, we definitely want this. We aren’t that mad. We have done a lot by growing alternate crops. Corn, which I told you earlier has been badly looted. This is an alternative crop. There are sunflowers, from which oil can be extracted. Punjab’s farmers tried to grow this but when there were no buyers they stopped. There are fruit orchards that we have. If the government fixes an MSP and guarantees to buy these crops, then none of the farmers would feel forced to grow these other cash crops because they are worried about the land. 

 

K: So, what do you think your goals for the future are? What farm laws would you want to save?

 

S: We definitely need to remove these 3 laws the farmers are protesting about. I’ve already told you about the demands to fix MSP. Also, I've talked about ceilings on profit margins for corporations. There are many laws like this that should be made to protect farmers. The government needs to sit down with the farmers to ask them what they need. They would rather refer to american organizations like the World Bank and their experts. Who asks the farmers?

 

K: Absolutely, for whom the laws are being made should be consulted instead of outsiders who have no clue about the local setting!

 

S: Madam, you must know that the UN has passed a resolution in 2018 that if there are local farmers, laborers etc. and if the government wants to make laws for any of them, they must refer to those people. This is a UN resolution that the government is not listening to. 

K: Do you believe it’s a human rights issue?

 

S: Human rights are being absolutely smushed under the shoes of the government.

 

K: You are absolutely right!

S: If in the parliament they aren’t letting elected representatives speak, then what is a bigger human rights issue than that. 

 

K: It’s been so many months and yet the government is not budging, then human rights are a far call.

 

K: So, how long do you think these protests will go? Do you think the government will budge?

 

S: The way the imperialist overlords are standing on the backs of the government, whether Indian imperialists or western, Walmart and everyone, Modi is feeling like he doesn’t need to care about small farmers. But, the way the political base for BJP has been destroyed in Punjab, it has started in other states, in Haryana. We will spread this trend to other states, no matter how long it takes. Whether it is a year, two years, four years. As long as it takes for the government to realize that if they don’t listen to us our political base will be destroyed, only then will they understand. This is our goal and we are working hard to achieve this. 

 

K: Thank you so much for making time for me.